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    « Flogometer for Ryan—would you turn the page? | Main | Flogometer for Liz—would you turn the page? »

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    Comments

    Von

    No.

    It would take an awful lot to make me read a 'jump straight into adultery without passing go' book. Usually they at least have the redeeming value of being about something else first (like being held captive together on an alien spaceship) and only secondarily about the adultery.

    So, and F- for yuck value.

    Von

    >> And Brad's not a jerk, nor is he out to cheat on his wife. Nor, for that matter, are Mike and Carol trying to set him up.

    If the above comment is true, then the first page is totally misleading... since this is exactly what comes across... 'impish grin' for example.

    Greg

    Thanks for the input, John. Sure shows the subjective nature of this. Ray recommends more beats, you recommend less. Ah, well.

    Deb

    6500 words? I already agreed with John- the dialogue tags were annoyingly bouncing back and forth for me. Then I read 6500 words, and thought 'Wow, what kind of story can this be?' Umm you have a lot of story to get in here to make us be okay with his being married and going to end up with Diane, because that is what you led me to believe with bringing her in like that. So I agree this first page is not making me feel like this is going to a good place. You may be able to do it, but I doubt if I would keep reading without being sympathetic to your MC, and guzzling a Corona isn't going make me like him more. If he were to hug his buddy, tell him how much he missed the two of them, etc... I would just need something to show what a wonderful guy he really is and that if this continues with Diane then there must be a really good reason.

    I would have never guessed this was going to be a romance.

    Greg

    Thanks, Von. Just out of idle curiosity, where in those 16 lines does it say anything about adultery? Brad's meeting someone he went to high school with and hasn't seen in 32 years. I think he's entitled to be excited. But why automatically assuming that will lead to adultery? Just asking. I'm not saying it will or won't, only that it ain't necessarily so. Who knows? Brad may just surprise you.

    It's funny, I've thought that if I simply reversed the characters of Brad and Diane, there would be far fewer objections to the story.

    Greg

    Thanks, Deb. I suppose it depends on one's definition of "romance." Actually, Diane doesn't make her appearance until about half-way through the story, and the whole thing takes place in one evening.

    And, by the way, Brad may have hugged Mike in the driveway five minutes ago, but I doubt it. (grin)

    As for the beats, I'll take a look at it. With real conversation, we benefit from facial expression. Eliminate the beats and you lose a lot of content. Just a personal opinion.

    That said, I'm glad everyone's seeing it as so controversial --- it's supposed to be.

    Von

    Seriously?
    1) it was supposed to be a surprise.
    -- an obvious set up for the reader, and an indication that the MC is being set up, too. with a girl. And he's married.
    2) an impish grin. “Diane.”
    -- given no other explanation, this is, again, an obvious set up. And, in a modern novel, set up people sleep with each other. Eventually.
    3) [profanity excluded] Wow. Diane. [more profanity excluded]
    -- married guy saying wow [and profanity] about girl coming do dinner. given no other explanation... (see above)
    4) Now, aren’t you glad you forgot to bring your wife
    -- Other than writing in glowing lights 'they are going to be committing adultery', I don't know how you could have been more obvious.

    Ray Rhamey

    On beats: listen to what resonates with you in regard to comments. Beats can add a great deal of story and character in a seamless way that adds to the rhythm of the story. I don't agree with John on cutting them, although I only recommended adding one and replacing one. Without them, and with mostly a string of quotes, the page looks naked and the dialogue can become flat.

    Von

    >>It's funny, I've thought that if I simply reversed the characters of Brad and Diane, there would be far fewer objections to the story.

    Not from me. Not unless there was some other explanation for all the excitement. And the 'aren't you glad your husband isn't coming' would still make it offensive.

    Ray Rhamey

    I don't know, Von--the impish grin read as knowing that Brad was going to be totally surprised by the guest to me. As for the aren't you glad line, Mike knows two things that you don't yet: she's beautiful, but Brad doesn't know that yet because it was decades ago, and that Brad used to date her all those decades ago, which is part of the grin. I think this poor page is suffering from too much microanalysis. If you turn the page, you don't go back and mine each line for every possible meaning, you just go on. So, either this opening worked to get you to turn the page or not, and let the narrative fill the picture in as it goes.

    FtQ readers will know that I often don't do a super-tight line edit because there are things that a writer has a right to do with his narrative, and that the main critique point is on story effectiveness.

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