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    « Flogometer for CA—would you turn the page? | Main | Flogometer for Cara—would you turn the page? »

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    Comments

    Chris

    There is much to like here. I enjoyed the tone, the setting is intriguing, and the protag Liu Jie seems interesting and complex.

    But Ray's basic comment still holds true for me: There's just not quite enough to captivate me enough to turn the page. It's very close though -- only a few tweaks and I'm hooked.

    I agree that the second part does offer more action, but I don't know if we have to go all the way to the (almost) BOPO ("Body On Page One") opening to make it turn-worthy. There are hints of danger and drama in the opening -- simply expand on them: Why does Jie have blood under his cuticles? Have these people been in a battle? What's at risk? What are they protecting Jie and his family from? Add a few more discrete elements of the risk, drama, and danger involved here, and I'd be compelled.

    Overall, the writing is pretty solid, but I noticed a few mjinor things. For example:

    "...his guards and family longed for a respite..." This is telling -- how do we know they "longed" for it? If we're in a close POV with Jie, how would he be able to tell? Give us a focused picture that allows the reader to make the conclusion himself.

    Again, this is very good -- it just needs a little initial focus on the danger, risk, and stakes at hand to elevate the drama, IMO.

    Victoria Dixon

    Thanks to both of you for the comments! I just don't know what to do - last year I had around 30 comments from Amazon Breakthrough Novel competitors and the vote was 2/3 of the readers preferred the book when I did NOT start with the discovery in the orchard. They felt too rushed into the action.

    I will certainly take the comments as far as outlining the risks to heart, but I think I need a break. I'm just too close to see this thing clearly right now. Sigh. Thanks again!

    Ray Rhamey

    Did the Amazon readers see two versions? And try to keep in mind that the goal is to hook a very busy and jaded agent or editor. Amazon readers may be a different breed of reader.

    Rebecca

    If this is historical fiction (not romance or mystery or suspense), then I would leave the opening the way it is. I thought it was very well-written, and I would have turned the page.

    But if it's more genre fiction, where the audience expects more action, then I like the second set of sixteen lines. But all in all, don't give up. I am very interested to see what happens next in this book!

    Victoria Dixon

    Yes, the Amazon readers saw both versions. I wouldn't have made the change without that comparison and I do think the opening section has improved from the changes I made. However, Rebecca makes an excellent point and one I had not considered. This is what I would label Historical Fantasy. It would have crossover appeal to both types of readers. I'm certainly not going to give up entirely as I refuse to throw 16 years of my life away. But stepping away might give me much-needed perspective. I'll try again in a few weeks and pray the agent currently reading it is forgiving. ;D
    Thank you, Ray, Chris and Rebecca! You've given me a lot to think on.

    Renee Yancy

    I love historical novels that take me to another time and place and this one does it. I would turn the page and keep reading.

    I agree with Ray and Chris that you could ramp up the tension a bit more in those opening lines. Maybe give us a sentence in internal monologue that would give us a better hint - who did he kill? How many?

    One last picky item - " an unrolled silk scroll". I don't think you need "unrolled". If you said a silk scroll was hanging on a wall I think everyone would know unconsciously that it was unrolled. As far as I know you wouldn't hang an unrolled silk scroll - it would look funny!

    Janet

    I think I prefer this new beginning to sixteen pages in. However, I liked Ray's cuts, and I do think you could easily increase the tension . . . maybe indicate why they're seeking the emperor. Or what about hearing a reaction to the scroll, even from other men.

    Having read beyond this page, this is much more relevant to the book as a whole than the dead body (even though that's important, too).

    It's a delicate balance isn't it? Hooking that editor/agent and being true to the book. Keep it up, and good luck! You write beautifully.

    Ray Rhamey

    Victoria, don't be discouraged. As we know, this is all subjective. But the first-page test is worthy of consideration. What I'm basically saying is to work more tension in the opening. It's absolutely possible to world-build within the context of a scene that includes tension. And why not do that if you can?

    Victoria Dixon

    Thanks, Ray! I understand & agree with you as far as increasing tension. The idea of trying to put the body first is enough to make me pull hair, but the tension I can manage. LOL

    Thanks for pointing that out, Renee. You're right, the word is not needed. And thanks for the vote of confidence! ;D

    hope101

    Victoria, the second beginning was too abrupt for me as well.

    I was very close to turning the first page, and with a few minor changes, I would feel compelled to do so. You have an exotic locale, the hint of big stakes to come, and an enjoyable voice. I'd suggest you just work on the microtension.

    IMO, I think it helps to parse out the setting as you infuse story questions.
    Here's a clumsy example, and not even remotely in your voice, but it might give you some ideas:

    As the tamped earth facade of a modest inn came into view, Liu Jie ceased to pick at the blood in his cuticles. He straightened in the saddle and took a deep breath of peach-scented air.

    Reaching the Emporer was urgent, but his party grew weary from the endless travel and bandit attacks. Better a night or two behind a sturdy wooden gait, than a fatal mistake.

    He swivelled in the saddle and signalled the guards. "We stop here."

    And so on...

    Anyway, good luck with this.

    Marcel

    I guess it's a bit of a faux-pas to inject personal taste to a critique but I'll do it anyway. Blame Hope101 for that! To be perfectly honest, while others thought the prose was beautiful, I thought it was a bit on the purple side (nice, but a tad overdone and heavy on adjectives). Hope101 provided prose through her sample that I could easily gobble up. It was less hurried, easy to assimilate and the images were just as vivid, IMO. I could read this type of prose for 400 some pages.

    That aside, the story elements are interesting enough. A little more conflict/tension in the opening, and you'll be that much closer to where you want to be.

    Good luck.

    Ellie Ann

    I would keep reading this story. It's well written, and I think that the scene gave enough "hooks" just the way it is! This is great!

    Luke

    Oh, I remember this story from a previous flogging. I'm gonna hunt down that earlier version.

    hope101

    Eep. I didn't mean to commit a critiqing faux pas. Truly sorry if I did! Having no formal study of writing under my belt, sometimes I lack the vocabulary to convey principles. I'm *sometimes* better at demonstration.

    Hope you understand my intention, Victoria.

    Victoria Dixon

    Hope, those are excellent suggestions and I really like them. Thanks for the idea!

    Marcel, I've had that comment from a few folks before and I'll admit I lean toward the purple end of the spectrum, especially in earlier drafts. That said, I feel some of that is inherent to who I am and I'm not sure how much more I want to cut. It depends, I suppose, if it ends up being a road block to publication.

    Victoria Dixon

    And thanks for the vote of confidence, Ellie Ann. That means a lot!

    wdw

    Generally, I thought it was pretty good!!

    A few objections, though...

    Rather than picking at blood from the cuticles, I think that real men picking blood from their hands would pick at blood under the fingernails. Cuticles are far too feminine.

    The thing about "My lord, let me – " --- the character's comment was apparently interrupted, but the interrupter does not show up -- nobody trumped his dialog, but it nonetheless got trumped. Maybe it continues in the next paragraph, but if so, that's very disjointed, I think, because the current paragraph leaves the dialog and goes into a somewhat goofy description of events.

    How close was the inn to the emperor? A few hundred yards? A few hundred miles? The distance adds logic to the discussion of "should we stay or should we go?" But I think that that factor is missing.

    Marcel

    The faux pas was mine, Hope101, not yours. I commented based on my "personal" tastes for simpler prose (which you provided and enticed me to comment). Typically, I don't think people should give a rat's bottom what I personally like or dislike--and I try to disassociate myself from my personal tastes when critiquing--but felt I had something to offer the author (maybe something many readers share).

    Plus, I have a flogging coming up in 2nd person POV, present tense that I'd like to get constructive feedback on rather than expressions of personal likes and dislikes (like the present tense sampling of a few days ago). So, I had to qualify my faux pas.

    Victoria, you write well, don't get me wrong. And there's definitely room for this style of writing. It's just a comment that I see a lot about similar prose, and one that you've heard a lot. I just didn't want it to go without comment, in case it's something that's preventing your story from getting published.

    Trip Volpe

    I'll just chime in and say that I loved the second opening as well, but I don't think it needs to be on the very first page. Your scene-setting is colorful and effective, and just a little bit of tightening up -- and introducing some more concrete tension -- would make your original first page into a good lead.

    For example, does the discovery of the body relate in any way to Jie's original errand with the emperor? If so, perhaps there is something there that might be used for foreshadowing.

    I also agree with Chris that "his guards and family longed for a respite" seems out of perspective. I'd try to express the weariness from behind Jie's eyes there.

    On the positive side, my favorite bit from the whole thing was the smell of the squashed peaches -- a vivid image, especially at night in the cold. Not only did it leap straight from the page into my nose, it also told of the danger of slipping and falling on your backside. I'm sure anyone who has ever been in the proximity of a fruit tree in the late fall can relate. :-)

    It's just the sort of poignant detail that might achieve strange prominence in the senses when one runs out into the night on a sudden and threatening errand. Good stuff!

    Victoria Dixon

    You know, I had the same thought on the cuticles the other day. LOL. I'll go with the fingernails instead.
    I'm afraid the body has nothing to do with the Emperor and is a separate part of the developing plot.
    Maybe I'll have him want to rest a sore or damaged body part from a previous fight - or some of his men need to do so.
    You guys are great and provide terrific feedback! Thank you so much.
    And Trip, I visited an orchard before writing that scene and know all about that particular danger. LOL That's why I had those details.

    jon

    Hiya, Victoria.

    This was an almost for me, but ultimately a no.

    The first paragraph threw me a little -- the MC is doing three things at the same time (thinking about being weary, swaying, and picking) -- but the writing was basically strong.

    There's an implied conflict -- he's to get to the Emperor with all due haste, and his version of "due" differs from that of those around him.

    But what actually stopped me from saying yes was that the story is set somewhere exotic-to-me but I don't get -feel- of exotic from it. My head is filled with stuff that can placehold for your typical-medieval-fantasy author, so they don't have to do all the work. But I have no mental image of what China looked like historically, so I can't fill in those blanks, and thus I need more blank-filling from the text.

    As a side note, were the Chinese farmers exemplified by those gathered around the scroll historically more literate than Western farmers were? Because until the printing press, most non-scholars were functionally illiterate in the West...

    Hope this helps! Good luck and thanks for sharing!

    -j

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