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    Christine H

    Ray, I really appreciate your comments. Sorry I was so frustrated. I had a peppermint mocha latte and a long hike in the woods, and feel a little better.

    I absolutely understand what you are saying about creating tension. I'm just trying not to go overboard. I have a great fear of being melodramatic. But obviously, I'm being too subtle.

    When I said that there wasn't enough information, I meant that there apparently isn't enough information about the lions and the danger involved.

    You're right about the main story not starting here. The whole book probably needs to be restructured. I definitely have a fear of being too dramatic, which may be hurting the narrative.

    I had removed the following two lines in the revised version I sent you Monday. Perhaps I should have kept them in.

    "Although they preferred sheep or poultry, they would kill anything that got in their way. Especially the old ones, trained in the war to fight brave hamen like his father. Faldur had made it his personal mission to hunt down every last one that had escaped the post-war purge."

    Christine H

    One more thing, regarding background information... specifically *what* is too much in what I gave? I was actually pleased that I had trimmed it down to what was necessary to understand what was about to take place.

    Regarding the sheep... I'm really surprised that others don't recognize how very valuable livestock is to those who depend on them for a living. Perhaps I'm just coming from a rural perspective, but the price of the wool is essential to this farmer's livelihood, and his entire income could be wiped out in a single night. I need to make that clearer, apparently. I don't quite see how that is out of POV, because everyone present would be acutely aware of it.

    Christine H

    (I meant to say, I *thought* I had trimmed it down to what was necessary...)

    Jami G.

    Christine,

    Yes, if a nightstalker were to take out a sheep from a farmer, it might ruin him - but that doesn't equal tension. As readers, we don't have any emotional investment with this farmer, and mountain lions live all over the U.S. and don't affect 99.99% of Americans, so those two facts lead up to a big shrug from the reader. Not good for tension. :) This is one main reason why 3rd Omniscient is not used very much any more. Contemporary readers expect to get emotionally involved with stories and unless an author really knows what they're doing, it's hard to create that connection in 3rd Omni.

    Your cut lines suggest some other areas for tension. Was the war against the nightstalkers themselves (are they intelligent and organized)? Or did the military train some of them for weapons? Either way, something could be inserted about that worry - Was this nightstalker they were tracking one of the warriors?

    As far as not understanding how the POV feels wobbly, I think it's the phrase "to him", as it feels like it's delving into his thoughts. Even if you chopped that part, you're on the edge of "telling" instead of "showing". If you found a way to show how losing a sheep would wipe this farmer out, it would probably help with the emotional connection and tension as well. Otherwise, the risk of losing a sheep is just not enough tension.

    Doug

    For me, "tension" is not something that occurs in the past. What has already happened, or what could have happened, does not cause tension.

    Tension is about not knowing what *will* happen. It could be a minor decision to be made; it could be an internal conflict within a character; it could be a life-or-death struggle. It's any situation whose outcome is uncertain, *and* which the reader cares about.

    That last bit is what's difficult in creating tension from minor situations in the first page: the reader doesn't yet have a reason to care whether John decides to order the salad or the cheeseburger, because the reader has just met John.

    Outcome uncertain + reader caring = reader keeps reading in order to find out what happens. But sneaky author slips in more tension so the reader can't stop reading when that first outcome is revealed.

    Christine H

    In my very first version, submitted sometime over the summer, I think, I explained that the lions had been trained as weapons. I was told it was an "infodump" and that I should take it out.

    Ray Rhamey

    Christine, I looked back, and the only other submission I could find was September, and there was no reference to lions trained as weapons. Here's the link: http://www.floggingthequill.com/flogging_the_quill/2009/09/flogometer-for-christinewould-you-turn-the-page.html#comments

    If there's an earlier post, steer me to it. The September submission doesn't include that reference even in the parts that weren't posted.

    There's a risk of being hung up in defending work. Don't. Your work is good, there's plenty of testimony here for that.

    I suggest that you be bold. Set this version aside, find the place in your narrative where the real story starts--when something happens that changes Faldur's life and gives him a goal that he HAS to achieve--and then give starting it there a try.

    Christine H

    You're right, Ray, it wasn't in the version I submitted here. It *was* originally, and I mentioned the past war for which they were trained, but that section must have been deleted during the many, many edits leading up to the FTQ submission, in response to other test readers.

    Interestingly enough, the more I think about it, the more I think that this *is* where the story starts. I just need to work on showing that more. Things are changing that he doesn't fully understand yet, but he soon will. I just need to inject more of that discomfort into the narrative. I am realizing that this story is really - in spite of the action - a literary novel about these characters and the changes they go through in their fantasy environment. It may be unpublishable, but I'm going to finish it anyway.

    Thank you for all of your wonderful suggestions and your time, and thanks to everyone else, too. It's been illuminating.

    I don't want to get caught up in defending my work, and I hope that isn't how it seems. I truly just want discussion/clarification. I'm rather alone in my writing, and this is my only critique group.

    Christine H

    The original, narrator-ish first page is the first two paragraphs of this old blog post, if anyone is curious.

    http://christinescottage.blogspot.com/2009/04/golden-gryphon.html

    hope101

    Christine, the following is one opinion only: If you can find a few beta readers to go over your manuscript, I'd highly recommend it. I'm not certain you're near your inciting incident at all. I say that having read the piece on your blog.

    To me the II is the sharply-defined moment when the protagonist is thrust onto a different path and must choose how to handle it. Whatever they decide, life will never be the same again.

    In your present opening, Faldur enters a conventionally dangerous situation, has a few tense moments, but he prevails. Tomorrow he'll presumably get up and do the same thing all over again. There's no tension in that, no escalation of stakes, even though he faces possible death. (At least not from the little bit of your manuscript I've read.) This would be akin to a policeman knowing of mob infiltration in his city, bringing down a minor henchman after a few tense moments, and seeing evidence of an overarching mob hierarchy he must one day face. Someday, sometime he might perhaps walk into a situation he can't handle, but there's no sense of it being soon or the outcome being interesting/nasty/funny.

    Does that make sense? Even though a policeman/woman faces death every day, you would never choose to begin a book recounting a day that's like many others in their life. You'd begin on the day of the massive shift which, yes, means the drama.

    What helps a reader like me is a sense of urgency, an investment in the outcome, and a gap between my expectation of the direction the scene will take and where it really goes.

    So, my two cents and please remember I'm only one person who doesn't read a ton of lit fic or omniscient POV it would be worth your while to really hone in on your story question and put it front and center in your first pages. You might be assisted by some beta readers in figuring our your scene structure.

    A place you might consider looking for them is Absolute Write, although I'd recommend hanging out there a while before you latch onto anyone. There is even a Show Your Work board where you can post your entire first chapter and get feedback from others who write in your genre.

    Also, Lani Diane Rich is running a six-week course on revisions that begins in January. Jennifer Crusie highly recommends it, so you might check that out.

    Hearing criticism about our work is hard, but speaking personally, writing in a vacuum is even harder.

    Good luck with whatever you decide. And Ray, hope I haven't erred in referring your blog readers to some other resources.

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