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    « Flogging for Dai—would you turn the first page? | Main | Contest winner & the Year of Patch »

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    Comments

    Doug

    I have to agree that the original opening is slow-paced. In the entire page, nothing really happens. Faldur and the farmer talk about the lion.

    I might have let that go to see if something developed with the lion, but the point of view was way too wobbly and the infodump in the second paragraph turned me off.

    To nit-pick at minor issues:

    "No new snow had fallen since morning" suggests that this scene occurs somewhere in the afternoon. So why do they need a lantern?

    Similarly, that implies that snow did fall overnight. Yet "It came out of the woods around suppertime" and "the lion’s tracks were clearly visible".

    Sentence length tends to be fairly constant, and the sentences are long enough to keep the pacing slow, which in turn highlights the absence of tension and action in the scene.

    Good writing, but watch that PoV and try to have something interesting happen on the first page.

    Christine H

    The POV is 3rd omniscient.

    hope101

    I have to agree with Ray's assessment. The writing is technically solid, but in the first snippet, there are only two points of tension: that the farmer might face some financial distress, and that someone might be hurt if they come between the lion and its prey.

    Since I don't know the farmer enough to understand the scope of the financial threat to him, nor have I bonded enough to one character to care if he/she might be killed, it's more of a theoretical "sometime" danger. Faldur has been successful so many times, I'm given no reason to believe he won't be again.

    What might help if this scene's required: hints that there's something different about this hunt; a vulnerable character who's going to be put at risk soon - a child, or perhaps a less competent ranger; a hint that Faldur has grown cocky about his abilities and will underestimate the antagonist.

    Christine H

    What's so very frustrating is that at the same time I'm being told that the information I've provided is an "infodump," and yet there's not enough information. So what I really need is a different *kind* of infodump.

    *headdesk*

    Yes, there is much more going on with the lions but every time I try to give the explanation, it's too much. (see previous submission).

    Regarding Ray's suggestion, although I'm sure he and others would find that scene much more gripping, my personal reaction, should I pick up a book and find such a graphic scene on the first page, would be to put it down right away. I would assume that the whole book was nothing but gratuitous violence. And I think that to start the book that way sets up a false expection of what the story really is about.

    So perhaps this whole section needs to go.

    Lexi Revellian

    Hang on, we've had this before. I remember the elegant Harth. I think I liked those earlier versions better.

    I'm not keen on Ray's start, as I'm on the side of the lion. This puts me off the men. It's all a bit Hemingway for me. Also, we have 'gurgling noise' and 'rustling noise' in quick succession.

    Voter

    Wasn't this done before?

    I agree with Ray. The second paragraph especially is a bunch of throat-clearing that slowed things to a crawl.

    I liked the second opening edited by Ray and would have turned that page.

    Doug

    Christine, when people disagree then its up to you as the author to decide what you want to do. You can't please everyone. Or if you can, please let me in on the trick.

    3rd omniscient is a hard sell these days. In my opinion (for all that's worth), that PoV needs to have a very distinctive and interesting narrator with his/her own perspective on the events.

    As a reader, I also want to know right from the beginning that the narrator is not one of the players. One easy way to hint at that is to put a glimpse of the future in the opening line. Something like this (I'm making this up and it probably bears no resemblance to your actual story):
    "The hotshot Ranger captain Faldur hadn't met a nightstalker he couldn't handle, but that upstart was about to learn a long-overdue lesson in humility. The question was whether he'd survive to make use of what he learned."

    Ray Rhamey

    Christine, you say "not enough information." Not enough information for what? To understand the world and the character's place in it? Maybe not--but the question is what the first page needs to do. For many readers--not you--the first page needs to set the hook with story, or voice, or character. And they need tension. Tension. Tension. The "problem" with this opening was that there wasn't any tension to speak of. If you're confident that information alone is enough to hook your reader, then that's what you should do.

    I'm not claiming that the opening I suggestws is a winner--it was just an adaptation of what narrative I had--but whatever you do, it should have tension. And story questions. I haven't seen any more of your story than the first chapter, but all of it doesn't seem to address the central story engine, not even the beginning of the romance.

    It might be that you're right in thinking about starting the story in a different place. That's the great thing about computers--just save this version and start with something different.

    Reminder: take only advice that resonates with you. Other reminder: the first page HAS to create tension. To quote a couple of successful writers, Elizabeth Bear says, "Your story starts at the moment when something in your protagonist's life is irrevocably changed."

    It's clear to me that the hunting incident doesn't qualify for that.

    Alison Kent wrote of working on a story where the changes to her protagonist's life were set in motion BEFORE the story opens. And she said that starting any sooner would be giving backstory that could be fed in later.

    I understand your concern with the reader having enough information--but, for me, you are not delivering two things yet: the experience of the character, and the "real" story.

    But that's just me. I suggest that, after the post has been up for a couple of days, you review the votes on the two polls. As I write this, the first poll has yes/no at 50-50, but the second one has yes at 75%. That may change in a day or so, but the thing is that these are objective readers giving you their reactions to what is "on the page." If it holds up that the large majority are comfortable with the amount of information in the more action-oriented approach, that tells you something, does it not?

    This reminds me of the time a critique partner said to me, when we got to chapter 3, "Your story starts here." After reflection, I saw that he was right. I cut two chapters, wove in a few lines of info from that material, and had a much better opening.

    Luck.

    Jami G.

    Christine,

    Take heart, you're getting lots of good feedback (even if you don't agree with it all and even if the comments disagree with each other) and a comment from Ray even (that's rare! :) ). I think this shows that your writing has enough promise that people are willing to help instead of just shrugging their shoulders.

    About your POV, as someone else mentioned, 3rd Omniscient is a hard sell these days - in certain genres. I'd recommend checking out the book: The Power of Point of View by Alicia Rasley. This book is full of great information about different POVs and exploring which POVs work for which genres, which authors, which stories, etc. She even differentiates between different kinds of 3rd Omniscient (a separate narrator figure or not) and how to make them work. I think it could really help you.

    As far as your other concerns, I understand why you don't want to set up the reader with false expectations for the rest of the story. I have that problem in my WIP too. :) I didn't see the infodump concerns that some of the other commenters did in your beginning here, but I did see where you undercut your own tension. I think if the story is not all action/gore/fighting, then you're right to not go with Ray's suggestion. However, make sure that the beginning you choose does have tension/conflict of some kind. I'd cut this sentence as it's not necessary and makes the nightstalkers sound less scary: They preferred sheep or poultry, but would kill anything that got between them and their prey. I'd also cut these sentences as they interrupt any tension, are unnecessary, and again make them sound less scary: Good thing the sheep were in.” The loss of even a single ewe would be a heavy blow to him, for the fine, soft wool of Glenhym sheep was worth its weight in silver. (This second sentence is also what makes your POV feel wobbly.)

    So, I think the tension can be there in your first scene if you tighten and choose your details carefully. Does that help? Feel free to email me if you have questions.

    Jami G.

    Jami G.

    Huh, I thought my email would link up, but it looks like it didn't...

    jamigold7 at gmail dot com

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