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    « Flogometer for M.Z.—would you turn the page? | Main | Flogometer for Jonathan—would you turn the page? »

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    Comments

    Lexi Revellian

    Agreed about cutting the first bit in italics - it just confused me, and made me re-read the passage.

    The story could be interesting, once it gets going. But I think the main problem is slightly clumsy prose - Vaughn, do you read your work aloud?

    'It wasn't like I was alone' - I can't imagine a princess using 'like' in this modern colloquial way. She'd say 'as if' or 'as though'.

    A heroine with 'thin hair' - about as appealing as a balding prince, I'd have thought.

    Kami

    This one worked okay for me. It came across as romantic. I'm not sure the repetition of decently works.

    A heroine with thin hair works fine for me--I suspect she's being self-deprecating, which I enjoy in royal characters. I get tired of flawless, bratty princesses.

    von

    Warning: Comment includes spoilers!


    ------

    The funny thing about the italics is I had to be forced, my arm twisted behind my back, to put that in by my readers.
    It really does play a role, and they succeeded in convincing me it really does have to go here (and the four other places where I do it), but I can see how it violates the sixteen line rule.

    Yes, she is being self-depreciating. It is a vital point of the story that the princess thinks she is ugly, and thinks that her betrothed husband (coming up soon) is even uglier.

    Sorry about the decent double and the typos. Thanks for all the technical comments.

    This all, for me, really reinforces my earlier comment (PM) about needing a 'genre' on these things. Would it have helped people 'hold on' through this page if they knew that it was a fantasy-romance? Would the self-depreciating princess and the italics 'I'm telling a story to my children' thing fit better if you knew that?

    (Specifially, 'tell us the story of how you and Daddy got married, Mommy!", but I don't want that level of spoiler.)

    If anyone wants to read the rest, feel free to read it at 'vonsbooks.com', the title is 'her fathers choice'.

    Oh, and Ray, feel free to send me your newsletter as you requested. Sounds good.

    kathy

    Vaughn,
    My first impression was that the children were students, so yes to your suggestion.

    von

    Which suggestion?

    von

    Is this better:

    The snow beat against the window, and the children's voices beat against her...

    "Tell us Mommy, tell us, Aunty!" They cried.

    She turned back to them, smiled, and relented...

    hope101

    I think this voice is lovely - feels almost Persian to me. That said, I'd prefer to have the story narrated as it unfolds, rather than given as a retrospective.

    By making it a story within the story - especially since I know there's a happy ending - it removes me one step from the narrator and reduces the tension.

    von

    Well, that is why I didn't want to spoil it so far as to let you know that it was the mother telling the story about herself.

    And 'Persian' is very like the effect I was looking for, thanks.

    Lori

    It sounds like there's a lovely story underneath, but I think it reads a bit thick. I'm not so sure I understand what is meant by "asset" - asset to the mission, or asset relative to her specifically? I too had difficulties with the first three lines, but when I went back to read them after I'd finished the 16 lines, then I really liked them. Maybe they should come a few paragraphs down after you've set it up a bit?

    von

    Huh. I will have to think about that. Or maybe if I made them a bit longer, and made it a prolog?

    hope101

    Von, what I meant to say more, is that the impact would be greater for me if you just let the story unfold, beginning with "When I tell you that the prince was in my bedroom..." Giving us a first person narrator makes this feel much more immediate to me than having a third person narrator telling events from the perspective of distance and time.

    You'd still keep the voice. And if it's important that it be a love story told to the children, you could end it with something like, "Thus, my dear children, is the story of how your esteemed father and I met..." Or some such.

    Is there a structural reason you can't tell this in first?

    von

    Well, as I say, I was forced kicking and screaming to put this in. It has to do with (Von ducks his head to avoid objects thrown at him) the fact that I write the book in dual first person.
    Halfway through the book the first person shifts to someone else. And I use these 'storytelling' breaks to make the change. For example the next one says,

    The lady paused in her story, to steal a sip of water.
    "Don't stop!" The children cried. The window behind her still echoed with the sound of snow, snow drive hard against it.
    "But my voice," she argued.
    "I will continue," another voice said.
    "Oh yes, oh yes," the children cried, jumping up and dancing around their new victim; who rumpled their hair and insisted they sit quietly again...

    I am trying hard to think of a way to remove this from the very beginning. As I say, perhaps if it was in a prolog.

    You can read the whole thing at my site.

    Would, "When I tell you, children, that the prince was in my bedroom..." work, do you think?


    Christine H

    Von,

    I think that you are trying too hard to create false tension (not saying that the prince was her future husband, whom I assume he is anyway), rather than creating real tension in the scene.

    This scene seems to be all "telling." There isn't anything propelling it forward for me.

    It would be more poignant for me if you had at the very beginning some clue that this is not just a nice, romantic story, but there there is some pain or conflict here for the storyteller.

    Also, does snow beat against windows? Unless it is slush or hail, I don't think it does. Usually snow is silent, perhaps providing a calming cloak for her tumultuous memories.

    Also, the phrase "scurrying around, awaiting my pleasure, were a half dozen maids" coming after "when I say the Prince was in my bedroom, I don't want you to get the wrong impression" makes it seem like she is a lesbian with a lesbian staff. I'm sorry, but that's the first thing I thought and I'm sure it's not what you intended!

    I think you have great ideas, you just need to work on focusing on the essential details, and on what is happening with the characters in the moment. You might want to just go straight into that first meeting of the past and skip the narrative frame, though I don't mind the frame if there is some tension - she doesn't want to talk about it, it brings up painful memories, she feels she has to whitewash the details for the children who idealize her and her husband, she has to keep some state secret about their wedding...

    von

    :)

    I guess I really have confused people. The prince is the bad guy.

    I will work on the 'showing not telling', and I think I will move the other 'storytelling' to a prolog.

    I'll think about the 'scurrying' issue, but probably the rewrite will take care of it naturally.

    Thanks again.

    Doug

    A pet peeve of mine: nobody has a name.

    That really distances me from the characters. The lead and the prince become just as anonymous and unimportant as the children, the maids, and the servants.

    Christine H

    Von ~ it's not the scurrying, it's "awaiting my pleasure." I know what you mean, but it makes it sound like they are waiting to serve her sexually, in context of the Prince being in her bedroom but not improper. See what I mean?

    I know you meant that it wasn't improper because they weren't alone. In fact, in all but modern settings, servants don't count as people. They are to be blind and deaf to what their masters and mistresses do except when directly addressed to fill an order. So it *would* be improper for her to be alone in her bedroom with a man without another member of her family, or someone else of status, as a chaperone.

    von

    Ah. I C.

    I can fix that, because she does have a Chaperone. Several, in fact. Thx.

    Doug: The really funny thing is, she never does have a name. I don't name her in the entire book. My kids commented on it, too. I just never could think of what I wanted to call her, so she is always 'princess' and 'my daughter' and 'that merchant girl' etc.

    von

    Is this better?

    When I tell you that the prince was in my bedroom, I wouldn't want you to get the wrong impression. It wasn't like I was alone. Any of my servants would have died before they would let the Prince do anything to me, or even touch me. And of course, David always stood watching me, with his big sword.
    I really liked this prince. I thought he was really wonderful. It may be a cliché, but he was tall, dark and handsome. And you know I am nothing to look at, nothing at all; and I wasn’t then, either. Stringy brown hair, kind of a fat face. I was a poor excuse for a fairy tale princess.
    But the Prince wanted to marry me anyway. He had come with an embassy from his father to try to convince me, to convince father anyway, that I should marry him. And I certainly liked the idea. Right now he was telling me poetry…
    “Your lips, my sweet,” he said, reading from a poem he had composed in my honor, “are like a rose, yet budding on the vine;

    Christine H

    It's a little better. But why *is* he in the bedroom? Is she too ill to get up? Did he force his way in despite her refusal to see him? Or does the Princess usually receive guests in her private quarters? If so, why preface it with "I wouldn't want you to get the wrong impression?"

    If she is *in* the fairy tale, she wouldn't refer to herself as a "fairy tale princess."

    And she really does need a name.

    I know I'm giving you a hard time! I'm trying to shake you out of your perspective and get you inside the actual story, not just in the *atmosphere* of the story.

    For the heck of it, this would be my take:

    The Prince was in my bedroom. I had been hiding from him - another nameless suitor - when the door burst open and a broad-shouldered, thick-lipped man came three paces forward, then stopped. The maids made startled noises and flapped around me like a flock of pigeons, quickly throwing a shawl around my shoulders, pinning up my hair, smoothing the bedclothes. David came striding in behind him, scowling, clutching his scimitar.
    "No! He has permission to enter, although he did not ask it," I said. David nodded and went to the corner, tense and watchful.
    My guest bowed from the waist, so low that I thought he might break in half.
    "You are as gracious as the sun," he said to me in a deep, oily voice which I disliked, "and as gentle as a lotus. I could not leave without reading this poem I have composed in honor of your beauty."
    I pressed my lips together. I was no beauty, and we both knew it. Besides, this man had never seen me before. It was my wish not to see him again. Yet I did not want to risk an international incident...

    Christine H

    P.S. I just realized I'm giving advice here and this is not my blog and I am not a professional by any means.

    I sincerely apologize to Ray and everyone else! I'm afraid I've gotten a bit carried away.

    von

    NP, I love it when people get carried away. You should read the actual story on my site and get carried away there! (vonsbooks.com)

    I will give you the plot, and maybe that will help:
    1) The prince is in her bedroom in the natural way, it is where she recieves guests. She is well guarded, there is nothing improper, altho only very few people would be allowed there.
    2) The prince is wonderful, handsome, suave, debonair, and, as it turns out, not the person her father picks for her.
    3) He is in her bedroom trying to get her to influence her father in his favor, while his fathers ambassadors try to do the same thing in a more mercenary way (ie a large bride price).
    4) He is in the middle of reading her persian style love poetry.
    5) Her maid is about to come in to help her get ready for dinner, and announce that her father has picked... someone else. Someone she has never met, from a country she despises, who never bathes, etc. etc.
    6) Her maid eventually gets her to run away...

    von

    The name of the book is "Her Father's Choice".

    von

    >>If so, why preface it with "I wouldn't want you to get the wrong impression?"

    Ah, because her children, the ones she is telling the story too, don't live there, and don't know those court manners. They might well get the wrong impression, since they are living... well, I wouldn't want to spoil the story :)

    Christine H

    Von, it's your story. You write it how you've imagined it. I was just making up some details to show you how to get closer to the action. You need to use your own style, too. It was just an example.

    von

    Oh, I know. I have a story I critique, and I end every few critiques with 'but it's your book'.

    But I find the feedback of all of the critiquers helpful, even when I don't use them. It tells me how my audience will/might react.

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