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    « Flogometer for Lorraine: would you keep reading? | Main | Flogometer for Phil: would you keep reading? »

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    Comments

    Jessica

    I agree with Ray that the opening felt like throat-clearing, and voted no on the opening as is.

    On the other hand, the snippet from page 9 would have made a riveting opening IMO. I think the author has a clear, engaging writing style and a good narrator. Start with a story problem, and I think it'll be a winner.

    Jon

    A no from me, alas.

    Nothing happens!

    Also, the relationship between mom and daughter seems a bit weird. Do they not live together, that the answer to the question the MC asks isn't already known?

    And, last, the dialog is too on-the-nose:

    "you know it is our first time out of the country."... "that's why he couldn't even be here now of course."

    All but smacking the reader in the nose with a wet fish, there.

    Something to consider when writing dialog: often people don't say what they really mean. What they -do- say, then, often reflects not only the things they hide but how they feel about them. Any conversation has hidden undercurrents - all the things that have been said on the particular topic, how the participants feel about one another at the time of the conversation, what each hopes for for themselves and for the conversation partner, etc...

    In the posted sample, there -is- a nice relationship in the first two lines of dialog (exasperateable teenage daughter, mother looking to connect with her), but in the third line of dialog the tone shifts to passing-information-to-the-reader, and the character relationship disappears.

    As an exercise in improving dialog, I've played with banal conversations - say, compiling a short grocery list - and written it ten or twelve different ways, with each of the participants being someone different, or having a different relationship with one another.

    For example, if I were doing this exercise with a grocery list, I might try a loving mother with a rebellious teen, an exasperated mother with a rebellious teen, a life-disappointed and drug-addicted mother with a teen trying to make everything okay, a teen abused by her father and her trying-to-ignore-everything mother, a cheating husband and an innocent wife, cohabitating twenty-somethings about to break up, etc., etc., etc.

    It was worth doing for me (and I periodically do stuff like this all the time; it's always worth a reminder) because it it'll quickly shows how conversations are about relationships, and how relationships are about the people involved in them. Every relationship -- however near or distant -- has its own dynamic that will inform nearly every word of nearly every conversation. Exercises like that one quickly make that clear. There are certain ways one party will say the simplest thing in one type of relationship that they'll never say in another, and vice versa.

    Anyway. Hope something here is of use! Good luck with this piece!

    Kami

    I'd definitely read on with the second snippet. The first one had too many problems and didn't have a hook.

    Watch out for sentences that go on too long. The opening sentence in the first sample was really, really long. I couldn't 'catch my breath' while reading.

    This one is borderline in the too long department:

    I put my arm around her and held her while she sat shaking and breathing hard, ignoring the sharp tingling sensation that seemed to flare along my whole body.

    Otherwise the writing is strong. Interesting locale, interesting problem ... good stuff!

    Don Felipe de Santa Rosa

    Sophomoric eighth grade "What I did on my vacation" essay.

    Jon

    So is it sophomoric, or is it eighth grade, O Don Felipe the Great Whom I've Never Seen With The Balls To Post Anything?

    Forgive me, anyone who isn't irritated by this post.

    There's not a damn thing wrong with criticizing writing in a way that is intended to help the writer improve it; that's why we post things here. But comments like DF's are classless at best and demoralizing at worst. The writer, whatever her age or experience, deserves respect and constructive feedback, the same as she would presumably give to anyone else who posted here.

    DF, please do ask Ray to post something of yours here so we can all be enlightened by your genius.

    Trudy

    Thanks to all for your comments. Everything said thus far has been usefull in one form or another; either to improve my writing or toughen my skin.

    Ray Rhamey

    Don Felipe,

    Comments such as yours are not helpful, nor are they welcome. This writer is working hard to learn her craft, and has taken a big chance in putting it out there. Snarky, negative, and unconstructive comments such as yours are worse than useless.

    Jon, DF has submitted something for the flogometer. I haven't evaluated it yet, but it's coming.

    Trudy


    ...I am eagerly anticipating my opportunity to evaluate what must be the unequivocal apex of creative writing...

    No but seriously, thanks to all for their comments, even you DF.

    Phil Cowan

    Trudy,

    I apologize for my tactless disparagement of your writing. I certainly have been properly and deservedly chastised (flogged!) for my indiscretion. In the future, if I have nothing constructive to offer, I will remain silent.

    Regretfully,

    Phil Cowan (Don Felipe)

    I'll not trouble you again,

    PC

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