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    « Flogometer for Anne-Marie: would you keep reading? | Main | Flogometer for Ray (yes, again): would you keep reading? »

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    Jon

    Believe it or not (hard on folks as I am), these are both "yes"es from me. Conditional "yes"es, at any rate. I imagine this is going to be a litfic book, not a thriller or a detective story or any such. If that's the intention, the pieces get a yes; if it's not, then no.

    The prologue felt like the Narrator from Our Town, an informal vibe, a plush and beaten-up couch with the comfortable spots worn in. I'd be happier if it were a chapter 1; I liked the voice so much that I wanted more of it, and "prologue" implies that we're going to leave it behind.

    The next to last posted paragraph actually broke the mood by reminding me that I was being told a story, if that makes sense. I'd find some other way of getting into the characters, or just eliminate the paragraph. Other than that, for me, the prologue was note-perfect. I can hear Jim Dale reading the audiobook version.


    The chapter 1 segment abandons the narrator's voice, which is a shame.* I'd trim the "soon to be asleep for the night" as redundant, particularly in a paragraph 1. The line "that ran deeper than the young boys knew" is a nice one.

    The dialog -is- a little talky, and Kevin in particular seems a little more adult in his sentence structure ("When I was out..." paragraph in particular) than I'd imagine is accurate for his age. But I really liked the way David was confused and Kevin was know-it-all; that felt authentic.

    I'd read on, wanting to see where it went.

    That said, by the end of chapter 1 I'd like to see it go -somewhere-. It doesn't have to be the eventual direction of the story, but somewhere.

    In the page following this, I'd expect to see a Want set up for one of the two boys, to bind me to them in a way that a charming narrative voice can't maintain for an entire book. But I'd certainly turn the page to see if I -did- bind to them.


    --
    *note that I'm not suggesting the narrator stay in every scene; that would get old. But making appearances from time to time, particularly in chapter beginnings, would have made me happy... perhaps more frequently in the first 1/4 to 1/5 of the book, then fading out as the characters took over? Just a thought.

    Deana

    At least it was different from what we see so much of nowadays.

    But as Ray pointed out, that prologue wasn't a prologue. It was just a huge chunk of back-story tacked on at the front. Plus it was just too much like listening to Mr. Rogers.

    Think of your story like a train. What goes first in a story should be the ENGINE. The pulling force. Get inside your POV's head and pull us into an exciting, tense scene where a lot is at stake.

    I think if you learned to do that, you would definitely succeed and this story could be good.

    Jon

    Deanna, Ray, I respect both your opinions greatly. But at the same time, may I quote something briefly?

    --

    Mr. and Mrs. Dursley, of number four, Privet Drive, were proud to say that they were perfectly normal, thank you very much. They were the last people you'd expect to be involved in anything strange or mysterious, because they just didn't hold with such nonsense.

    Mr. Dursley was the director of a firm called Grunnings, which made drills. He was a big, beefy man with hardly any neck, although he did have a very large mustache. Mrs. Dursley was thin and blonde and had nearly twice the usual amount of neck, which came in very useful as she spent so much of her time craning over garden fences, spying on the neighbors. The Dursleys had a small son called Dudley and in their opinion there was no finer boy anywhere.

    --

    Now, that said, the last line on page 1 (current "10th anniversary edition," on Amazon), is:

    The Dursleys had everything they wanted, but they also had a secret, and their greatest fear was that

    Which DOES support the "have a hook" on the first page bit quite nicely. But when I picked up Harry Potter at a friend's recommendation, the first two paragraphs were the sell for me, not the last - the voice, evoking Roald Dahl as it did, was a HUGE sell for me. I'd have kept reading just to keep hearing that voice in my head.

    THAT said, Ms. Rowlings did go through quite a number of rejections before HP found a home; on the other hand, who doesn't?

    Deana

    Jon, not quite sure what you're getting at with the HP comparison.

    Are you trying to say that the current flog is so similar to HP that it should succeed as is?

    Ray Rhamey

    A couple of thoughts: the first is that liking or not liking an opening page is entirely subjective. It's totally possible that a first page could be compelling not because of tension but because of an incredibly seductive voice.

    I think that an agent who represented literary novels could, indeed, turn the page on this one.

    Me, I wouldn't take the chance if it were possible to have my voice and an intriguing story element on the first page.

    Why not? In this case, and in every case that I've seen, it's possible. Considering the competitiveness of the publishing marketplace, I think it's smart to start strong, and a strong start, IMO, always involves story.

    Jon

    Not to turn this into the Jon show, but... eh, probably too late anyway.

    What I'm saying is that It Depends. HP took, what, 30-some agents (more?) before someone loved it? I didn't post the HP sample to say "this is like HP," but rather to say "this has a strong voice, like HP, and that may engage an agent/editor in a slushpile of same-ish beginnings, in the same way that it engaged me.


    While you're both right in that a strong beginning is preferable, I think the definition of "strong" depends on who's reading it. For me, the voice in the prolog clicked; I found myself trusting the narrator and wanting to be told the story they were telling. For me, that fits the bill of engagement. For you two, not so much. You're not wrong; neither am I.

    I think there's a push to least-common-denomenator 'This Will Work'ism in workshops in general, and there's certainly validity to the conclusions they draw. Certainly most of the books that are published fit this criteria, and as more books fit it, readers come to expect it, and thus more books are written to fit it. There's nothing -wrong- with it, but I'm hesitant to tell an author with a strong voice that that voice won't work; it might not hit blockbuster, but... well, it might, too; see Potter, Harold.

    All that said, Ray's not wrong in saying that a strong, seductive voice paired with a "hook" of some sort might improve the book's chances. For me, the voice was enough, but it won't be for others (such as you two :) )

    Okay, I'll stop now so other folks don't get intimidated that I'll go after them :). I just wanted to be sure that the author wasn't discouraged from pursuing a voice-driven narrative if that's what s/he feels the story requires.

    Sheila

    Jon, I'm beginning to think you are a contrarian. Which is a good thing. Really.

    I think that the HP lines you quoted, while you commend the voice, there is also a hint of something interesting to come. "They were the last people you'd expect to be involved in anything strange or mysterious-" seems to imply that they will be. And that makes the reader want to read on and find out what it is.

    Here, in the prologue, there's no such hint. And while I agree that voice can carry an opening (for me, a good example is the first page of Jim The Boy-nothing happens but a boy waking up on his birthday, but the writing hooked me.) Here, the voice wasn't special enough to pull me onward.

    While I was a "no" for the prologue, I would have read more of the first chapter. I have three boys, and I love books that give me a glimpse into the inner workings of the mysterious boy brain and the relationship between brothers.

    Good luck!

    mai

    I liked the prologue's POV and style. I thought more economy would make it more powerful, though. It seemed too show-offy, style-wise.

    In the chapter opening, the language was pretty much under control. The author's style generally created a feeling of freedom and energy, for me. But these two paragraphs...

    "...David let the insult pass. He didn't know why his brother, older by almost four years, thought his question was dumb when it was the same question he'd been asked.

    "“When I was out on the front porch this afternoon,” Kevin said, “I heard Mom and Dad talking in the living room about maybe going to Robert Hill Park tomorrow. I think they want to surprise us, so don't let on like I told you.”..."

    ...broke the fine, light style by being too wordy again. And the older brother's dialog, in the second paragraph above, is too adult -- if he's young enough to confide in his 5-year-old brother, he's not old enough to speak that maturely, I think.

    Both sections created tension between apparent innocence and a sense of upcoming adventure, danger, and/or mystery, that I liked a lot.

    My biggest quibble was with the prolixity of the prologue, which not only seems unnecessary, but also self-defeating, in terms of effective story-telling and expression of the author's style.

    Because I liked the style and the subtle tension, I'd have turned the page on both sections. The style was the bait, and the tension was the hook, for me.

    mai

    Putting my comment about prolixity on the line, here is the prologue, cut almost in half, with a little bit of punctuation changed, and two words added. The style is pretty much preserved. For me, this heavy pruning allows the prologue to lead into the story more strongly.

    - - - -

    Our story starts in 1960; that seems about right.

    Our starting place? A two-bedroom house on a quiet street. An oak tree grows on the front lawn, an apple tree grows out back.

    A few blocks away is the main street, home of stores, a diner, library, post office, fire house, police station, bars, movie theater, gas station and small office spaces. Many buildings are three story, with businesses on the ground floor. A trolley connects the borough to the nearby city.

    The borough city might be in Pennsylvania. Let's call it Laurelwood, population 17,000, on the eastern shore of the Susquehanna River, a few miles north of Harrisburg.

    Who are the people in our story? Allen and Mary Wheeler, their boys, Kevin and David, and a few friends and neighbors.

    And it's the season that matters the most, Summer, of course!

    Norm

    I agree with Jon about the prologue. I think the first chapter suffered from the loss of the narrator.

    The prologue's narrator had the kindly but somewhat absentminded elder setting the stage. The fun in that is that the narrator's facts cannot be taken at face value all the time, but the truth of the story isn't in doubt. It did have that Roald Dahl vibe going a little didn't it?

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