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    « Flogometer for Martin: would you keep reading? | Main | Flogometer for Jon: would you keep reading? »

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    Comments

    Sarah

    thanks Ray!
    I had changed the uninterested to Unintimidated after i submitted this.
    I love all your suggestions, and used them all. And yes it's the same girl.
    Thanks again,
    Sarah

    Kitty

    Once you've established that the italicized lines are what she hears in her head, there's no need to repeat that explanation. Besides, it slows the action.

    If this were my genre, I'd turn the page.

    ...

    Deana

    Ray, I'm curious if you have heard from any editors or agents that fisticuffs in the beginning has become cliche? I've heard agents say never start with your MC waking up, and as many times as I've seen fights to begin books (which I personally don't find effective or interesting), I wonder if they've been overdone, too?

    Ray Rhamey

    Deana, I've heard the same thing about waking from a dream--it's a tired way to open a novel in many eyes. They seem to resent being drawn into an interesting scenario only to discover that it's not real. I tend to agree with them.

    However, there are no rules. If you can do it in a fresh way, it might work. I opened one of my novels with a man in a dream, but it was just a dramatic piece that only took 3 or 4 lines, and then he was out of it and showing a reaction to the dream. Seemed to work.

    I haven't read any taboos about opening with a fight, or that is has become a cliche. But then I don't read every agent post, though I do track quite a few. You might ask Evil Editor about it. As to whether that's effective or interesting, we're into the subjective nature of reading.

    Jon

    First lines are clean, good.

    >She ran at me. Shards of pain rocketed my skull as she hit me, knocking me to the ground. The breath rushed out of me. My lungs ached.

    ...but here... huh. You know that thing I was asking in my reply to the feedback on my piece? About the engagement with the character , with the physical conflict opening the scene? Applies here.

    This opening gives rise to three questions in my head: who's the protag, who's the attacker, and why are you being attacked. For me, these three are not winning questions. Let me see if I can explain why... hrm. Maybe it's because they're me questioning the story, instead of the character being faced with questions. (??? I think? Need to think on this one...???)

    Let me babble further. This is off-the-cuff thinking; let's see where it goes.

    When I read a piece that starts with the character facing some want or need of their own, it helps inform me of who the character is. If Joe's want in the first lines is to have a cigarette that he's been denying himself, then I know some things about Joe. I know he's trying to quit, and that he's maybe not so good at it. I know he's facing pressure from somewhere--either his own concerns about his health, a loved one's nagging or kind suggestions, a kid's lung cancer that he blames on second-hand smoke... something. And maybe I can identify with that, or find some echo in myself in a completely different direction.

    An opener that doesn't give that character hook--an opener like this one--makes it harder for me to care. And so I'm not as engaged as I might otherwise be. Maybe that's what the "start with conflict" thing is in part about--about defining the character through his conflicts.

    Huh. Yeah, that feels about right. I don't know if it -is- right, but it feels right as I type it, so I'll let you judge if it works for you.

    So, interpreting the first lines through that lens, I see that there's a world hook--someone sending thoughts into the MC's head--but there's nothing of the character in the first few lines. The closest is the editorial comment "This was not good." Which has a nice understated feel to it that I liked a lot.

    Maybe if the piece had built up more to the confrontation, it would have worked better for me?


    On a strictly wording level...
    >Shards of pain rocketed my skull as she hit me, knocking me to the ground.

    Not in love with this. Having -been- hit like that, tackled in a mad rush, the first thing I felt was surprise, then I hit the ground, then a further half-second to process, and -then- the pain (from head hitting ground) came. (Think cause-and-effect, and allow time for processing)

    The phrase "shards of pain" didn't work for me, either; that makes it sound like a chaotic rush of multiple discrete events, when really (for me) it was just one big flash.

    >The breath rushed out of me.

    Maybe--or maybe it takes a second for the character to try to breathe and realize she can't. That's the way it happened for me. Hit the ground, OW!, breathe--oh, crap!

    As for aching lungs, push all the breath out of lungs and hold your breath. See how long it takes before your lungs actually start to hurt--I think it takes longer than this paragraph makes it seem.

    >As I tried to get up her foot flew at me, but I rolled out of the way.
    >I caught her foot just before it would have crushed my hand,

    This caused me problems - not sure what kind of kick "she" threw here. A stomp would be necessary to crush, but stomps don't "fly" - they're whole-body (if untrained) or maybe hip-down (if trained) vertical movements; not really the "flying" type of thing.

    >A growl erupted from her chest

    ew! is that like a chest-burster in Aliens? :)

    >and her eyes burned

    cliche alert! (sorry!)

    >And I guess I didn't blame her.

    Huh. THIS I liked. This, I would have liked to see closer to the first line. Because if someone steps out of the woods, talking in my head and hating me with something I can see--and, most importantly, understand--it raises a whole lot of character questions.

    >Uninterested.

    This seems at odds with the anger and hatred. How could she be both hateful and uninterested?

    Overall, I might turn the page to see if it gets better (there -are- questions raised toward the end) but I'm not hopeful. (Sorry, again!)

    Good luck with this one. Hope there's something useful in my commentary!

    Mai

    Very nice cadence and aural texture in this writing.

    Very very very slight cutsieness or overwriting sometimes. Like "or two", regarding robots. In a lesser writer's work, it wouldn't matter, but in Jon's work, I anticipate almost-perfection, and I fuss inside when something is slightly off.

    I prefer to be introduced to a character's given name or nickname at first, and learn more particulars, like surnames, etc., later. These are casual times.

    'Gaping windows' wasn't a clear image. Gaping means stretched out of normal shape. If the image meant the windows were all pretty much broken, it should be unlikely that a new shot would hit glass.

    Small stuff like that.

    A page-turner for sure, and truly excellent writing.

    Mai

    Sorry, Ray and Sarah, and all, I meant the comment above to be under Jon's flogging. Tiredness is a poor excuse, but it's all I have. I will post a proper comment in a minute.

    Mai

    The real comment for Sarah:

    Sarah, I turned the page. Not only is the opening scene gripping and clearly drawn, you've also successfully done what I've been struggling, unsuccessfully, to do for months, i.e., you've created a character who's wholly strong and active. I keep pulling my punches. You've let loose with yours. Congratulations.

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