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    Richard Mabry

    Ray,
    Point taken, and I don't feel picked on. The problem I have--and one I've noticed when you've critiqued a couple of my own submissions--is that it's hard to know which way the writer is going with the story. For instance, in this case how important is it to wipe away all the fingerprints? Or is this just an obsessive-compulsive guy? And laying the gun on or beside the plaque--my first image was a plaque with a gun mounted on it with a clip or something. Sounds wierd, but that's the picture I got. So that edit's for clarity.

    But you bring up something that's important for editors and crit partners alike. Respect the author's voice and edit only for clarity, even if you would have done it differently. Mea culpa.

    Keep flogging.

    Kamila Miller

    I think you're dead on. This is one of the least understood aspects of editing and critiquing yet one of the most critical. Folks do it all the time because no one wants to tell them not to do it. They put so much time, energy and effort it seems ungrateful. But in the end you're doing the writer, editor and critiquer a service by calling attention to it.

    The example I use is Faulkner. What if he was part of a critique group that rewrote all his sentences and kept hammering home how he was doing it all wrong and had to do it the usual way? If he listened to them (which I doubt he would have, people told him right from the start it was 'wrong' but he didn't listen) we would have no Faulkner. You don't have to like him. But respect him, and respect the voices of the writers whom you're editing and critiquing. It's more important than you realize.

    Ray Rhamey

    Richard, you're right that it's hard to know where a story is going on the first page, all the more reason to tread carefully.

    Interesting how people interpret narrative. For example, the fingerprint. I deliberately chose "polish" because I hoped to communicate that this plaque was special to Kurt and he was just taking care of it. Thus "polish" rather than "wipe."

    And your first image of the plaque was close; I see the gun mounted on the plaque on a peg arrangement, not beside it.

    Thanks for commenting, and keep up the good work.

    Jon

    Good thoughts, Ray. Applicable to me in the broader sense, if not this instance.

    I suspect that (for me) it's a bit of my work functionality creeping in -- taking other people's not-very-good (no fault of their own, they're not writers) text and polishing/combining it into user guides and product updates and such. As such, I'm used to my voice ruling, and have gotten out of the habit of letting others' voices shine through.

    Good reminder.

    H. L. Dyer

    Great post, Ray.

    I actually toyed with responding to the rewrite in that comment. I do think the tone and sense of the character's priorities were changed by the suggested edits, especially regarding polishing away a fingerprint vs. wiping away any prints.

    I thought the scene was clear in the original version. I assumed there were pegs or something that held the gun.

    Deana

    Great discussion! If readers can interpret a passage many different ways, does it suggest lack of clarity on the author's part? Does the editor try to make sure the impressions are as consistent as possible, or does the author's "voice" trump this?

    Ray Rhamey

    Deana, it's hard to imagine interpreting a passage "many" different ways, but there certainly can be ambiguity in a portion of narrative. When an editor spots this, he should point it out, at the least. I try to indicate why it's ambiguous, and then offer thought-starters to give it clarity.

    If the author chooses to ignore it, that's her call.

    Deana

    Ray, your description of the plaque is a good example of a passage that could be interpreted differently by readers. I realize you don't feel it was unclear, but it may have been.

    An editor might suggest simply adding more description to clarify rather than changing the action around it as one critique did.

    Of course a writer can choose to ignore suggestions, but what happens when an editor finds that preserving a writer's "voice" entails sacrifice of clarity?

    Ray Rhamey

    Deana, I think a key factor is just how important the detail is. Stephen King has some good thought on this in his "One Writing" book.

    In this case, all that's really needed is for the reader to imagine the character putting the gun back where it was. The key information is not the configuration of the plaque, but the medal and the name on it. That part seems to be perfectly clear.

    I doubt that an ordinary reader would even pause to think about whether the gun was on or next to the plaque. In this case, we have readers focusing on just 16 lines, with no page to turn to. In a book or a manuscript, I believe that no one will stop and try to visualize in tight detail just what the gun/plaque arrangement is. They'll get the stuff about the medal, the grandfather, etc. and turn the page. Don't you?

    I don't see how a writer would have to sacrifice voice to achieve clarity. It's just a matter of rewriting within that voice, using the words the writer wants, to make things clear.

    Make sense?

    JanW

    This is a fascinating article to me because I have been known to over-crit pieces and cause tears as a result. I've found that the reaction depends on the self-perception of the person requesting the feedback, with beginners being less reactive, but those who have been 'published' arcing up, telling me off, etc.

    JA Konrath has an interesting blog post on A Newbie's Guide: http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2008/07/bending-over-and-taking-advice.html about how to best use advice of any kind that is worth reading.

    I think your point about 'voice' is good to make, Ray. But as you say, 16 lines is not nearly enough to get what that voice is. So the person making comments is less likely to get the rhythm and tone that develops over the course of several chapters.

    As for ambiguity, there is a potential of being drawn out of the story if they are there. I couldn't visualise putting something on a plaque. My mind interpreted all that as the heavy object, the gun, having to go on a horizontal surface, but a plaque in my mind is on a wall. When I read that passage I was drawn out because the physical relationships of the two didn't make sense to me without having to stop and think. Stating 'hooks' somewhere in there would have been enough to make it work. 'Next to' wasn't a problem, but the three dimensional relationship and gravity was.

    I also try to put in suggestions if I see something confusing in word choice when I do a crit, as well as an explanation as to why I'm making an edit. I'm a teacher from way back, and feel that it's important to provide more than a tick or a cross or a change without explaning why.

    None of us need to take these comments and use them. But as Konrath says in his article, affirmation will only get you so far. It's the uncomfortable points that provide opportunities to learn, no matter how much they hurt at the time. But even then, a little sensitivity can go a long way. We can only ever do our best from a caring position, and telling the writer the intentions are to be helpful, not hurtful, and letting them know there may be more here than they expected, can help ease the response. After all, we spend time doing these reviews and hope they are helpful to make the work and writer better.

    As you say, for what it's worth....

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